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EEVblog 1620 – Deye Solar Hybrid Inverter EXTREME
EEVblog 1620 – Deye Solar Hybrid Inverter EXTREME TEARDOWN
#EEVblog #Deye #Solar #Hybrid #Inverter #EXTREME
“EEVblog”
Extreme teardown of the Deye SUN-5K-SG04LP1 5kW hybrid solar inverter.
Will it contain the quality components claimed?
Also a topology reverse engineering of all the stages.
00:00 – A generous and coincidental donation from a viewer
00:37 – We have the brochure, let’s check the claims!
02:44 -…
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Would love to see a talk through dc blocking in transformer topologies such as H bridge, push pull etc and maybe loop in snubbers, resetting the core techniques. Maybe flyback converters Very interesting topic !
Unrelated question: What if we used 240VDC for appliances instead of 240VAC? Easier to convert, no power factor non-sense, what are the drawbacks?
I presume the 150A fuse substitutes for the DC side H-Bridge blocking cap. Issue with blocking cap is heat, reliability & board space (AC caps are bulky) and cost.
Dave, can you please do a seperate video explaining tri level switching and HERIC.
Aishi (pronounced 'aye shur' cuz Pinyin) is a common cap brand to find in compact fluorescent and LED lamp ballasts, in which applications they seem to survive well enough given the roasting they get.
The series connected Hongfa relays may be a cost cutting measure. I have 2 Sol-Ark 12K inverters made by Ningbo Deye (pronounced 'duh yuh') and all of the main AC relays are Japanese made Panasonic/Matsushita rated for 63A.
Well, for the brand-problem or those components: Possibly they switched not by choice, but 'cause they are difficult to get now. Being forced to use china brand components in a Chinese product, nice result of weird politics.
Future video idea: show how a tds meter works and how to use a multimeter to get the same results.
You know, this teardown makes me wonder how come these inverters make so much high pitch harmonic noise.
There's this Chinese saying: "能骗就骗 (If you can cheat, then cheat)". One should never forget that, especially when buying stuff from there.
It's kinda sad that Chinese companies design a high-quality product and still think they have to lie about it.
15:43 Does anyone know the article number of that or similar smd current links❔
I need some for an 120A application
Chinese part substitutions are not about "getting them cheap". Its all part of Made in China 2025 plan/program. Companies are getting subsidies for using domestic parts, very smart and clearly effective.
One of the assembly houses I know in Shenzhen said there's an embargo on importing 'western ally' components.
So Japanese, Taiwan, US and European made components are difficult to get without a big bribe.
118 strands
@27:58 in the video. The reason they are not using a blocking cap on the battery side is because the voltage is not high enough to overcome the losses. You would need a very large cap bank on that side to break even. In the end, it's just better to omit the cap all together. Remember that the current has to go through 2 sets of MOSFETs. So if one set shorts out, the current sensor can shut down the other set of MOSFETs and break the circuit.
Appreciate the inverter power topology diagram. Interesting. Thanks.
Like you said, the drivers must be super critical- if two opposing switches accidentally overlapped, bang- game over.
When was this made? I am curious is this was a covid supplier issue.
wow let me get my popcorn for the show! do more teardown on grid connected inverter!
What's the image handling software Dave is using in this video?
The battery side of the HF transformer has no blocking capacitor as it is a phase-shift full bridge topology. A blocking cap would create an LC resonant circuit with the leakage inductance of the transformer. It needs a proper square-wave waveform to moderate its power flow. Infineon make an engineering sample PSFB DAB design.
Another day, another company doing bait-and-switch on electronics components.
Another one hung low solar inverter. Save your money and buy a Tesla Powerwall !.
Where are the MPPT boost input filter capacitors? All I can see are a couple of grey film caps, maybe 5 to 10uFs tops? The Solar array current spec is, I believe, up to 13A or so; typically you'd design the inductor ripple current of a boost convertor to be around 30% of the average so perhaps 3A peak to peak. Unless the switching frequency is insanely high or the boost inductor is exceptionally large I wouldn't have expected 10uF to be anywhere near enough to avoid an amp or more of ripple through the entire PV array. That wouldn't be good for efficiency and terrible for EMI. Several hundred nH of wiring inductance is also going to make things interesting.
Also where are the bus caps? Obviously I'm missing something here…
An explanation of the DRM interface. A key requirement of AS4777. 2 is Demand Response Mode (DRM) defined in the standard AS4755 Demand Response Standard which enables the inverter to respond to signals sent to it remotely. These signals trigger the inverter to change the mode of operation, potentially turning it off, on, or ramping the output up or down. To allow the electricity network operator to better manage the grid. The RJ45 would be connected to a ripple receiver (decabit/K22 signalling receiver) this device is usually provided by the local distribution network provider for the local area, the RJ45 interface board is simply monitoring contact closures from an attached receiver. DRM modes are: DRM 0 – Operate the disconnection device, DRM 1: Do Not Consume Power, DRM 2 Do not consume at more than 50% rated power, DRM 3 Do not consume at more than 75% rated power / Source reactive power if capable. DRM4: Increase power consumption. DRM 5: Do not generate power. DRM 6 Do not generate at more than 50% rated power, DRM 7: Do not generate more than 75% of rated power AND Sink reactive power if capable, DRM 8: Increase power generation. DRM modes DRM 1, DRM 2 and DRM 3 are also commonly used for controlling domestic loads such as air conditioning.
EEVblog 1283- What is Mains Ripple Injection?
https://youtu.be/Po4b7JhpxKQ
It's too bad they don't make these things more serviceable. Instead of boards and wires going everywhere it should just be modules that pull out.
So the solar panels are live! As well as being high voltage themselves. Spicy!
The round transformer is wound with Litz Wire, and used for higher frequency systems. We used this for frequencies above about 250KHz. That's why youre seeing the fast rectifiers. Vishay is actually a good brand.
So how do you know you have one of two bad relays so far to avoid having two? Amazing how all the power goes along a PCB though.
Why there is no SiC + GaN inverters on a market?
@35:35 The other advantage of series relays is, IF they both open at the same time (or VERY close to it) it reduces or eliminates the arc across the contacts. The path between the two is effectively isolated when they open, so no place for the arc to go.
The "HERIC" patent is effectively just pair of synchronous rectifiers head-to-head to do for AC exactly the same job that synchronous rectifiers do for DC. Haven't read the patent but I'm guessing those transistors are also used for PFC boosting as well when charging batteries from AC. If someone made a fully synchronous bridge-less PFC circuit for a power supply, it would probably infringe this patent too,
Deye also manufacturers larger hybrids than the 5K of course. I took one of their 12Ks apart as well which was similar to this one. There is a US company that private labels and has engineering input to these. Sol-Ark. They specify the inverter output power at battery + solar. Higher watts than with battery and DC to DC converter alone.
Their web access used to be hosted in China and I think that is changing to servers being able to be hosted in the US.
They are obviously a top notch manufacturer. Those caps might be just fine. Would have to measure. We use a Chinese cap company (jianghai ) that use to (still does ?) manufacture Panasonic snap-ins that are awesome and low ESR.
The USA versions have PV Arc-Fault which is now required here.
Dog's breakfast design. Lol
Looks like an EMC nightmare. Thanks for the video, very interesting.
I have the 12k euro unit of that. So far, a year in, it seems like a very happy purchase.
Don't know much about inverters but why does it use a flyback boost converter? Those are inefficient, right?
No way this little 150A fuse has the breaking capacity to interrupt the circuit during a short without causing an electric arc.
Hi Dave can you debunk RooBadge, I posted it in dodgy technology eevblog forum.
Dave, note that the patent expired 15 May 2023. So no more money…
What is a Brosha?
To put it in a nutshell: DEYE is a bunch of frauds. I don't know if you followed the news – in Germany and likely other parts of Europe there was a huge scandal, the "relais gate": In Germany and several other European countries we have the AR-N4105 grid and plant protection, a requirement for protective elements like a relais as galvanic isolation and redundant protection.
Without these you will not be certified for operation. What DEYE did: They certified fully fitted devices and then sold stripped down devices without the required protection, so basically these devices have no allowance to be operated. Guess why I do know. These are the SUN600. A short time a successor, the M80 was brought to the market. X-ray photos show a relais but guess what – this relais is not even connected.
Well, they got caught and did deliver a separate relais box which in practical use is a quite flakey solution. Guess again why I know.
So I'm not really surprised about their lies regarding the used components. Fits the whole picture…
I was very disappointed when I first saw opened DEYE inverter…the leads from MC4 inputs for PV were so thin…
would be interesting to see how this would compare to the internals of European equivalents like Victron, SMA, Fronius etc.
My sting gives me 300V so not much boosting to get 240V RMS
Yeah man. That looks very similar to my Sofar one.
Good to see IGBT representation on pride month.
This is crazy different from the Sol-Ark 5k that everyone claims is manufactured by Deye (Pronounced Doy-YAH) that we tore down in our video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4mYMLksWvs
Can you show his wave form of inverter . One of these I saw zero crossing distortion .
Interesting that the PV is referenced to the mains input. Could be an RCD tripping nightmare??