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Joscha Bach Λ Ben Goertzel: Conscious Ai, LLMs, AGI

Joscha Bach Λ Ben Goertzel: Conscious Ai, LLMs, AGI

#Joscha #Bach #Ben #Goertzel #Conscious #LLMs #AGI

“Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal”

Joscha Bach meets with Ben Goertzel to discuss cognitive architectures, AGI, and conscious computers in another theolocution on …

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38 Comments

  1. I can't help but get the feeling that Ben has traversed a bit further into the realms of the mind that Joscha. My favourite parts of this interview are seeing how Ben handles the debate. Ben has experienced the zero point 😂 Joscha would do good to perhaps consider an experience into the mind

  2. This conversation demonstrates…VERY clearly…how indispensable a solid understanding of philosophy is to the kind of discussions these two guys are having. Quite frequently they flounder all over the place attempting to elucidate the concepts they're attempting to explore… for the very simple reason that the concepts they're attempting to elucidate lie along the perimeter between experience and epistemology. That very place where meaning itself is born and rises to the level of awareness…and then into rational coherence. Without a solid grounding in philosophy…such ventures are nothing but confusing.

  3. I once went to a conference on future trends.. Full of the smartest people around… Ben was at this conference and providimg the most intelligent contributions whilst simultaneously coding a unique mnd

  4. To be honest, solipsism is true. Joscha, Ben Goertzel, TOE channel, they don't exist. It is all my mind. I am the god of this universe so after I die, everything else is meaningless. At the same time, computation is really interesting phenomena within solipsism. Physics, Chemistry and Biology also interesting. You just found really interesting feature in the video game you play. Enjoy your video game with those fancy features.

  5. Like Joscha said, CLI/Video graphics mapping is kind of 'emergence phenomenon' in science. Also operating system is an emergence too. More deeply, CPU itself is an emergence. They are not that different to biological emergence. 'Abstraction' in computer science is basically about emergence in Physics and beyond.

  6. 1:43:45 Ben is absolutely right about the future prediction on AGI evolution. I view this as an inevitable development that nobody can stop and that is wonderful that we will have lots of robots that think in terms of helping the world heal. Engineers are developing them out of passion, curiosity, fun and some out of greed. Most likely nobody is developing them out of compassion to help the world. Most people support this technology out of greed and to have the "upper hand" on world political situations. And out of this setting the base stage that comes from usually lower mind states will then arise the Deus.

  7. 1:09:441:13:00 On creativity and jazz music.. Music is a creative process that illicits an emotional response in humans where timing is also important. If you told an LLM to create music from existing music, that is a basic task. If you hooked up an EEG to humans who were listening to music and recorded that data and trained it on an LLM and then told the LLM 'I want you to create a musical piece combining West African drumming and Western classical that illicits a happy(or sad) response' I think it may produce something closer to jazz, maybe.

    If the LLM only took the peak of the song where the peak emotional response was, without the buildup, then the music it produces might not be so good, there has to be some reward system that has value on not just the peak but the buildup and timing, rhythm, etc. This is like multi-modal thinking models right? If A=B and B=C then A=C but in geometry and in thinking, some information is lost when you only think in one way.

  8. Wow, fantastic conversation! Listened through it in one sitting. Loved both of these guys for a while and it was definitely a treat having them hash out some of their ideas together. Thanks TOE!

  9. This was awesome. I admit I had to pause many times. I was so proud of myself I could follow Joshua’s opening without hitting pause! What a mouth full! Lol. But Ben’s response was nothing short of “Qabalahic”. “Why the good guys usually win” or as I once read in an 80s Science magazine “It’s not the good guys finish last. Good guys last longer!”

    Larry Greenblatt

  10. Even a PCB the size of the entire universe, and with the fastest components, even quantum computers, will never be conscious. Creating consciousness is the same as creating all of existence.

  11. If you really scrutinize the implications of Turing equivalence it's obvious that everything everywhere–in any conceivable continuum–can be modeled computationally.

    I like Ben, but he's still struggling with this truth. Joscha is already there.

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